In this posting I will like you to respond to one of the EQ's submitted to me by your peers. They are good questions. Some might take a little research. Please use the links to the left to assist this inquiry. For example on Dr. Mac's site he gives a podcast on schoolwide management systems.
1. Is it possible to focus on using positive recognition, yet continue to use effective negative consequences when needed, or is it better to use a "one or the other" mentality.
2. I am looking to see other ways that teachers handle discipline in their assignments. I would also like to hear how other schools handle discipline, rules, and follow up.
3. Is there or is it even possible to have a one size fits all management plan?"
4. So perhaps I'd like some information on how to make a better transition from school district to school district and also from the middle school to the high school setting as I teach mostly freshman.
5. My question: In our middle school we have "teams" (teaching
groups). How do you handle the frustrations of inconsistencies regarding
general discipline procedures between different "teams"?
6. A question I would like to have answered is, are there some effective strategies for high school students in a more diverse setting?
7. What does research say about the difference of discipline needed when teaching various academic levels? Is it a factor whether the class is higher level or lower level?
8. How does the philosophy of classroom discipline differ between a teacher in a classroom setting and a teacher in a less structured atmosphere, i.e. a wide open field or a large gymnasium?
9. Also, is there anything that can be done when your administrator is not consistent with discipline depending on the student in question?
10. [How do I] feel less frustrated when dealing with discipline?
11. Is there any type of classroom management plan that has positively promoted students' internal motivation for academic success without using an overabundance of tangible rewards?
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This blog is for the purpose of extending our conversation regarding the important topic of classroom management. My hope is that ideas stretch our current understandings and that questions stimulate an academic dialogue.
Classroom Management Links
- Eric Online Documents: Step by step (ED433334) First Days of School (ED442770)
- Teacher Vision...Experienced Teachers Offering Ideas and Solutions
- Dr. Mac's Amazing Behavior Management Advice Site
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- The Really Best List of Classroom Management Resources
- You Can Handle Them All
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- Glasser's NCD...not to be confused with Plasticer'...
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20 comments:
http://www.behavioradvisor.com/12022.html
This is the link to the podcast on schoolwide systems.
I do not think there is a one size fits all plan for discipline. I was sitting there listening to the presentations and I was thinking to myself how I use bits and pieces from all of them... In my opinion it depends on the situation, class, and kids involved. Class discipline is something that I have taken a much better grip on now than I had when I was just starting. I think just through experience and talking with more experienced teachers helped me with classroom discipline.
One more thing...if I did not type your eq I did not see it. Let me know if it was excluded. Thanks. Mark
Regarding question #3 about a one size fits all management system: I feel that much has been written about differentiated instruction for the students and I feel there is merit in the strategy. What about, however, the teacher's style and comfort level to using these techniques? I don't feel that I am comfortable with everything that any one of our presentations have had, but I do like something about each one of the strategies. Is it wrong or going to create chaos if I mix and match some of these strategies together? I certainly hope not. We currently do not have all teachers with the same philosophies of teaching nor the same structure in the classroom, so why not allow for a combination of many strategies that meet the needs of the students AND the teacher?
In relationship to teaching differant academic levels. I believe you can keep the same plan but might have to adjust your methods of administrating your plan. We have seen this in the presentation and ways that all three sample problems have been approached. I one case eye contact might be enough in another proximity might work and in another personal contact might be needed.
In my art class the students are mixed as far as academic levels and I find I can keep my plan but have to alter to the individual. We are going to experiment with teams this year so I think in the future we might go back to levelized groups but it should not pose many problems.
In my class I like the mixed groups. I think the lower level kids are raised to a higher level by being around the other students.
My experience in the past was that if all the lower level students were together in all their classes then they would create their own idenity as a group and it was not always a positive one. I also realize in other subjects it would be better for all concerned to have groups with similar abilities.
In looking into the 'one size fits all' question, I do think that it can work - at least at the elementary level which I will address. This was my question since I see the entire school, teachers, parents, and community members as users of our library. I think for a one size fits all approach to work, it has to have a good foundation. The library often has outside visitors/observers. I have always felt the need to have a simple, defineable, well-supported plan since so many eyes casually observe me when they are browsing/using the library. For me, our school district vaguely talks about Panther Pride. Then our building uses that with a character education based behavior plan called Roundtown Proud. The guidance department takes the lead in the character education. I have based my classroom management plan off of all this. I make sure all the teachers know what behavior plan I use and the lingo involved. Their support helps makes it successful.
I read Dr. Mac's Developing a School-Wide Behavior Management System to get ideas. It takes much planning to ensure success. It also takes a lot of communication with staff and parents and the willingness to reformulate or retool if needed. If you were interested in developing a school wide plan, his ideas would be a great place to start.
Responding wo what Bryan said, I think if teachers are supporting a core of a program, how they adapt it into their own classrooms is ok. We have to take our own personalities and style into any plan. If you cannot use a plan convincingly, it will not be successful. At the elementary level at least, I like the idea of all of us using the same 'book' and beginning on the same page.
In response to "one size fits all" I feel the basic structure of a management plan could definately be the same but the actual implementation in various classrooms would differ depending on grade level, types of students in the class, and teacher personality. I listened to McIntyre's podcast and he believes in the 4 principles (setting up rules, establishing consequences, looking for kids who are doing the right thing, and being consistent). I feel these principles must be evident in every well managed classroom regardless of the differing classroom dynamics. Each principle mentioned would look and sound different in various grade levels but the structure for a well managed classroom would be in place. I liked his approach of suggesting that the teacher help students to see the benefit of complying with the rules/codes of conduct.
As far as question 3 goes, the "one size fits all management plan," I have my doubts. If by asking that question you mean one of the discipline plans discussed in class, I would say that this is a possibility, depending on your class. Some classes are homogenious in their needs, and one single plan may work well. Other more diverse classes will require a more broad spectrum of apporaches. In teaching a class that attracts all levels of students and students of many backgrounds, I would say that for me, using one approach would not work. I am forced to diversity my classroom discipline and fit it to many students.
Another way I see a "one size fits all plan" could be seen as dangerously close to a Zero Tolerance plan. I do not feel that Zero Toloerance plans are effective in today's world. A student carrying Tylenol in the back pack is NOT the same as a narcotic, and should not be treated as such. I guess if I were forced to answer that question briefly, I would have to say no, I do not think there is one "one size fits all plan" that could effectivly deal will ALL students.
Of course, I have to respond to question #8- "How does the philosophy of classroom discipline differ between a teacher in a classroom setting vs say a gymnasium?" There is definitely a difference between the two settings. I teach in both and at times, I have two different types of teaching styles becuase of it. Since there is always a safety factor involved in a Physical Education Class or a Swimming Class, I must have strict boundaries and procedures established from day one. I tend to be more methodical and orderly in my directions and teachings in PE /Swimming classes. Most of the time I "Lead" but, I will admit, there are times that I am the "Boss" and, again that is to prevent injury and chaos. Fellow co-workers, who stopped in the gym to watch a class or who have taken their class outside to do an activity, have asked me the question, "How do you do it?" .....because it is different and it does require you to be "on alert" & on "your toes" alot. I think that you will find this next point interesting: Quite often I have had the same group of students in PE class and then later in the year for Health class, and it is not unusual for me to see a change in their behavior just in switching from Health to PE or PE to Health. Same kids.... same teacher...different atmosphere.
Mark - I did not see my question. I just asked if there were specific skills or strategies that I should share with my student teacher. I obviously know that modeling is important, but what should I be doing in addition to that?
I definitely do not think it is possible to have a one size fits all management plan. As a teacher you have to use your skills and experience to adapt to the situation at hand. I think this goes along with the 'fair but not equal' way of teaching. I will treat all of my students fairly but I will not treat all of them equally. They are all different people with different issues and personalities and need to be treated as individuals.
I don't think the 'one size fits all' approach really works unless everyone buys into it. Each educator has their own style and ways of dealing with misbehaviors.
It would be nice if punishments were followed thru with the higher ups....a lot of times teachers do all of the punishments since the 'higher ups' play the pal and do not discipline as to hurt friendships with parents.
Question # 5. We have teams in my building as well. Our administration encourages each team to implement their own rules for the students on their team. When teams were established at my school, our team developed a unanimous list of rules and consequences. We all appeared to be on board, but over time we have all revised this list. I think our rules and consequences best fit our personalities, grade levels and subjects. Even if administration required that we all had the same list of rules and consequences, would each teacher reliably and follow and enforce them?
I can see that these inconsistencies cause many problems for special area teachers (phys ed, art, music, fcs, tech ed etc.) that teach most of the school population. I guess the only thing that we can really control is making sure that we reliably follow our rules and consequences.
This opens another door. In class we mentioned the teacher that appears to have no rules or consequence other than chaos. These teachers really don’t enjoy that chaos. Often they are too embarrassed or too proud to ask for help, but they do open the door for suggestions when they are complaining about students. This is the opportune time to interject, ”Well this works for me or have you tried”.
Yes, I think you can use positive recognition and effective negative consequences. Of course the negative consequences may not be effective all the time or w/ all kids. Don't kids have to learn that life isn't a bowl of cherries? In real life, we can't just do our own thing-breaking rules, disregarding others- and not have some negative consequences. Most people learn from these situations and try not to do it again. I teach in a classroom with a first grade teacher who really loves every one of her kids and shows it. She gets very annoyed by some of their behavior and they pull cards (her system), lose recess time when homework is not completed (they do it during recess since they didn't take time to do it at home), and she is very direct when telling them about their inappropriate behavior. But they love her-even the most difficult kids, do- because they know she loves and cares about them and wants them to have success in school. This is how she is consistently with her classes and she often is given some of the most needy kids because she is so great with them. It's tough on her at times because she gets emotionally involved w/ her students, but they all benefit from having her as their teacher, even with some negative consequences. When the negative consequences are reasonable and the love is felt, it can work.
One size fits all management system.....I would like to be wherever that would exist.
Unfortunately, no, I don't think there is a "one size fits all" system, because of the millions if uniquenesses within each school district, building, and classroom. I can picture a Splenda sugar commercial when I imagine what teaching would be like with ine universal system...glitter would fall from the ceiling...smiles would be on everyone's faces...and Suzie and Jonny would walk in straight lines to the cafeteria without saying a word.
Collectively, the theories that we learned about so far have a bit of overlap to all of them, so that adapting what works for you is the ONLY management plan TO follow.
Dana, I am glad that you shared about your experience with one of our first grade teachers. It makes me proud to hear that we have teachers like that in our school district. I think you hit the nail solidly on the head!
Tom, you are right. Most of us only learn what works best for us through our own experience and the advice from more-experienced teachers. We have all used trial and error for many different apporaches in education, and we settle for a mix of everything. Classroom management is the same way...it gets better with experience, and it is NOT a packaged system.
"I am looking to see other ways that teachers handle discipline in their assignments. I would also like to hear how other schools handle discipline, rules, and follow up." Whoever posted that, I agree. I was looking for something a bit more concrete in this workshop. I have come up with about twelve rules that would cover what I expect in the classroom. I want to know how to present them to the kids. Everyone always says to only have a few rules. Well, I have more than a few, I guess. I am always interested in seeing how other teachers do things.
You make some good points above.
However, I also think that this can be helpful to you:
Go to: http://www.panix.com/~pro-ed/
If you get this book and video: PREVENTING Classroom Discipline Problems, [they are in many libraries, so you don't have to buy them] email me and I can refer you to the sections of the book and the video [that demonstrates the effective vs. the ineffective teacher] that can help you.
[I also teach an online course on these issues that may be helpful to you at:
www.ClassroomManagementOnline.com ]
If you cannot get the book or video, email me and I will try to help.
Best regards,
Howard
Howard Seeman, Ph.D.
Professor Emeritus,
City Univ. of New York
Prof. Seeman
Hokaja@aol.com
www.ClassroomManagementOnline.com
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