Thursday, July 31, 2008
Glasser's NCD...not to be confused with Plasticer's (thought I try that again)
Looks like Paterno released 2 players today for off field issues (fighting). These are college players acting like some of our agressive kids and the result of their behavior may have cost them a career. How might Glasser's approach work on aggressive kids? What are your thoughts on asking: what are you doing? Is that helping you? What do you want? Can I help?
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19 comments:
Asking those types of questions to someone who is being a behavior problem could work depending on the situation. If it is a case where a student is completly out of control I am not sure asking him those types of questions would be a good idea, at least until he has calmed down and is able think about what he just did. I think in order for this type of style you need to have some type of rapport with the student even if it was just established a few moments before you began asking those types of questions. Also, how you are presenting those questions is crucial. If you are sincere when dealing with a student the chances for a resolution is much greater.
I feel fortunate that I do not consider any of my students to be aggressive kids (knock on wood). I would not imagine that the "aggressive kids" would be ready for questioning like Glasser's and perhaps be caught off gaurd and it may work. I could also see, however, that the student thinking that the teacher is trying to be smart and the aggressiveness escalate and become more of a problem within the classroom. Asking "How can I help you?" seems like a great idea to calm the situation if it is stated in a calm and non-confrontational voice.
Maybe I am misunderstanding Galsser's methods, but in reading and in listening to the presentation, I didn't feel like he provided any methods for dealing with these "Difficult Students." I took his method as saying if you apply yourself to becoming this Noncoercive Disciplinarian, you shouldn't have any troubled students. By being the Lead Teacher, having open discussions, asking students how they learn and so forth, that the major misbehaviors shouldn't exist. I don't really agree with that, if that is what he is saying. I feel that his line of questioning whys and whats of misbehavior will not work on the more severe "difficult" students. I had a student say some pretty nasty things to another student in class, and I questioned him on why he would say such things. He instantly put up a barrier and began into his "I'll say whatever I want" speech. This was also a student with who I do have a good relationship. Glasser's approach may be effective other long term use, but in many casses with the troubled students, we simply do not have that much time, because while you are working with them, they are continually hurting or disrupting other students.
I'm all for the noncoercive discipline plan until it comes to the aggresive student. Fortunately I have not had to deal with this, but I don't believe this approach would work at all. The student who is aggressive is obviously not calm and for this approach to work both parties need to be in a calm frame of mind. A productive conversation cannot take place when one party is fired up. I feel Glasser's strategies are best suited for proactive use and mild misbehaviors. For this scenario it just would not work.
I agree with Brian G on the successful use of this program at the upper levels of teaching. I think you would often get the "I'll say and do whatever I want" attitude. It is another good tool to have in the toolbox. Different students need different strategies and this might work for some.
I learned something for the elementary level or for siblings that does work amazingly well. It is the glass jar system. It takes just a moment to explain that you are putting all but one of the involved students/sibs in a glass jar from which they can see and hear all but cannot speak. That allows you to listen to one at a time. They like the breaking of the jar and the imprisonment of the other person so that they are released and can respond or tell their version of the problem. It is a calming tool and it allows you to get to the place where you can say, "What can I do to help you in this situation?" It really has worked for me. I even saw some kids imitating it! Sincere flattery.
Asking if Johnathan has a problem after 'Johnathan has thrown something at a student' seems like playing dumb. In some cases, you do not want to escalate the situation by yelling at the student to cause Johnathan to act out again. However, I would get Johnathan out of the room to cool down and find out why his is acting innappropriately. To leave the violent student in the room might cause other students to be fearful and prevent any kind of learning. I think that it is good of Glasser to give Johnathan a cool down and ask questions calmly rather than yelling.. but I think Johnathan should leave the room to cool down and find out then why he is acting in such a way.
I think being a "lead teacher" is key to the success of Glasser's model... one that is authentic, guiding, encouraging and believes in both quality learning and teaching. I've had several aggressive students at West York, as it's a very diverse group of kids and many of them come with a lot of baggage. Most of these kids simply need someone to talk to and want to know you care. I had a student two years ago I will never forget. He had already been in jail, was 18 but in the 9th grade, and gave many teachers a very rough time. In the beginning, he was very aggressive at times with me and I had to have one-on-one talks with him to try and learn more about him, to gain his trust, and see how I could make my classroom a place where he could learn and feel comfortable. Eventually, I had no behavior problems with him. He ended up dropping out the next year and came to my room to say goodbye. He told me I was the only teacher he wanted to see before he left. He was actually holding back tears! I think if you ask questions such as, "What can I do for you?" and "What can we do about this?" it has to be genuine. Kids know when you're faking it. They know when you don't care. We have to be the real deal... or else we aren't going to be effective in dealing with their behavior.
I think that asking those questions could be effective in most situations, however they would have to be asked at a point in time when the student is calm. When a student is being seriously aggressive often they should be removed from the learning environment, whether that means to the hall, office, or guidance office. This allows them to calm down and for learning to continue for all of the other students in the class. The student could then come back when they are calm and might then be open to these kinds of questions.
My initial response to Glasser's approach working with aggressive students is "No, I don't think it would work", and I know I expressed that yesterday. But kids are so different and there are those kids with that hard shell on the outside that are really softies on the inside that may be able to be reached if treated in a kind, considerate manner that shows them someone genuinely cares and wants to help them. These aggressive kids are lacking one or more of those basic needs. It would take a very patient individual/teacher to be able to crack through the hard shell with the questioning, and the student would have to feel really cared about, but it could work.
Mark, not funny the second time around either. :)
Asking "What are you doing?" and "Is that helping you?" reminds me of Dr. Phil. "How's that working for you?" I have tried this tactic. Many times the students don't know what to do to help them stop the behavior. If they don't know, it is difficult for me to know.
Again here, I think what you need to do is find out what need is not being met: survival, belonging, power, fun, or freedom. Try to meet this need without disrputing class or learning. I can see problems with this, though. If my student wants the freedom to get out of his/her seat without permission, I cannot grant that to one student and not to others.
What I am coming out of all of this with is a feeling that I am going to try talking and problem solving more, but I am also going to keep consequences in place. So, a mixture of both I think.
I think the approach depends on the situation and the agressive kids involved. If you ask an agressive kid who is oppositional defiant Glasser-type of questions, it might backfire. Although, if a student that you have a relationship with already is one of the agressors, you might have luck using Glasser's approach.
I don't think I would use Glasser's approach...at least I wouldn't ask, "Is that helping you?" Some kids might take that as if I am being sarcastic, and it might fuel their fire more.
I agree with most of you. A noncoercive plan of action could work with some students but not necessary an aggressive student. As I said before, each situation is different and there are factors to be considered. It depends on the misbehavior that is occuring.... whether or not other students feel threatened ...and the individual student. In the past, I have had a very aggressive student who I pulled aside, calmed him down and talked to him. It worked for him, but I have also had quite a few where no matter what I said to them, it wasn't going to change the situation. It may even had heighten it. The key is: To be an effective teacher, you need to take an interest in your students and get to know them. I believe all of these philosophers would agree upon that.....(and if not, I would hope that one of them would sit down and discuss it with me so that we could come to a No - lose resolution. LOL) Each situation is different; each kid is different; and each grade level is different.
That's why our profession needs bags of tricks so that we can pull out different strategies when they are needed.
An enormous amount of trust would have to exist between the teacher and every one of the students for Glasser's approach to work. To an aggressive kid who does not trust his or her teacher, such questions would be ridiculous and counterproductive because they are so different from what they are used to. I can see how helping these students achieve self-realization of why they do certain things can be beneficial. Some aggressive students just react without thinking. This method could help them change their habits so that before the react, they actually examine the situation. I am not sure that enough class time exists to meet academic requirements and make a student intrinsically motivated, however. Certainly aggressive students are less likely to respond to a boss teacher, but I think that goes for all students. Very few people like to be powerless in a situation and have to be told what to do. Aggressive students may display more drastic behaviors in response to a boss teacher, but any student can have a negative reaction to one. The class meetings may work for the aggressive students because they would provide a calm, structured arena for conflict resolution and meaningful decision-making. If the aggressive students buy into the method, it can work but a lot of time would have to be spent on changing their viewpoints and building a new perspective of the role of the teacher.
It seems like we are all agreeing that the "Why and What" questions may work under a few circumstances. I agree that the student much calm down before they will have any effect. Asking a student "Why are you upset, or What can I do for you," when they are in the middle of a tyraid seems pointless. After they calm down, however, it may have a more effective result.
Another approach was one Carrie took. By approaching the difficult student before the act of agression has occured, she prevented it before it occured. These preventative skills tie back into Gordon's model for "Discipline as Self Control" and other models as well. A tactical and effective manuver that paid off.
I think taking Glasser approach with aggressive kids could work. The key would be to first wait for a period of time before approaching the situation. Give everyone a cooling of period. Then approach the student or student's individually and ask them why. Be an active listener. Then ask the what are you doing, how is it helping, and what effect will this have on you. Then be encouraging and offer help to move past the cause of the problem. With the college players they to need help to move past their mistake. It will also be good to point out to the students or players that their mistake has not cost them their lives. The sun will come up tomorrow and it is important what they do from this time forward.
I really do not think Glasser’s questioning approach would be effective with aggressive students. Many times that type of questioning immediately after the infraction would open the door for an inappropriate or disrespectful comment. Thus, escalating the problem. Glasser’s questioning would be more appropriate in private when both the teacher and the student have calmed down. In Glasser’s example he said that Jonathan was obviously upset when he entered the classroom. If I see a student that is upset on entering the classroom I would try to address it ASAP. After Jonathan has thrown the object, it might be better to say that as inconspicuously as possible, I can see that you and Michael have a problem but throwing things does not solve it.
Tanya, reading your comments has raised a question inside of me. What WOULD Dr. Phil think???
Hey KWE I really like that glass jar idea. I think that would work great with two combatants. Time to calm down focus hear both sides as an active listener and then react. Then enter yourself by asking what you can do. Great Idea.
Carrie T ....you got it! Your situation is one you will never forget. The way we as educators are able to impact the lives of students goes far beyond what we can teach them from a book...It is all about building that rapport, no matter how tough it may seem.....Always, I have had success one on one with a defiant student versus being in front of ANYONE else. They value that you can take the time to care...as we all know some don't know anyone who DOES care.
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